[apple-iphone] Digest Number 2251

Saturday, October 23, 2010 4:08 AM By Livemail

Messages In This Digest (23 Messages)

Messages

1a.

Re: Do I wait for the next version of iPhone?

Posted by: "Dawn" strawbarigurl@me.com   strawbarigurl

Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:08 am (PDT)



I just sent a message about my husbands front screen shattering after a very minimal drop. So... if that's any indication to you of how fragile they are, it might help you make your decision. And I JUST ordered an otterbox defender series case for him yesterday!!! So frustrating!

~Dawn

http://the-strawbarigurl.blogspot.com

• sent from my iMac •

On Oct 21, 2010, at 1:35 PM, Baby Chinchillas wrote:

> I've been hankering for an iphone for a long, long time... I was going to
> get the iPhone 4, but my daughter tells me not to touch it because of the
> problems people are experiencing. She specifically mentioned the back glass
> breaking and the loss of signal... Don't know what to do. She was worried as
> I have a tendency to drop my phone...
>
> Should I wait for the iPhone 4.5/5 or just buy the 3GS?
>
> Brenda
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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1b.

Re: Do I wait for the next version of iPhone?

Posted by: "Woody" waterk9@gmail.com   rainiedaze139

Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:08 am (PDT)



First question is- do you get good ATT wireless coverage where you will
travel and use the phone? The iPhone is a Great phone, but it is an
expensive brick if your coverage is terrible. Same with any other ATT
phone or any Verizon phone.
Ditto on the case.
Also consider extended insurance for the phone. Square Trade appears to
have good coverage that includes dropping and spill protection.

If ATT wireless has coverage for you, I'd get the iPhone 4, much nicer.

>>> I've been hankering for an iPhone for a long, long time... I was going to
>>> get the iPhone 4, but my daughter tells me not to touch it because of the
>>> problems people are experiencing. She specifically mentioned the back
>>> glass
>>> breaking and the loss of signal... Don't know what to do. She was worried
>>> as
>>> I have a tendency to drop my phone...
>>>
>>> Should I wait for the iPhone 4.5/5 or just buy the 3GS?
>>>
>>> Brenda

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1c.

Re: Do I wait for the next version of iPhone?

Posted by: "rkkeller8" thekellergroup@gmail.com   rkkeller8

Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:14 am (PDT)



I don't know if the breaking part would stop me but ATT's coverage is
something to consider. I had 3 versions of the iPhone and one main
reason I didn't get the newest one is due to ATT coverage. I will not
buy another "anything" if its locked to ATT.

I know others have great ATT coverage but its worse than Sprint if you
ask me.

Rich

--- In apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com, Baby Chinchillas <PrintTrueColor@...> wrote:
>
> I've been hankering for an iphone for a long, long time... I was going to
> get the iPhone 4, but my daughter tells me not to touch it because of the
> problems people are experiencing. She specifically mentioned the back glass
> breaking and the loss of signal... Don't know what to do. She was worried as
> I have a tendency to drop my phone...
>
> Should I wait for the iPhone 4.5/5 or just buy the 3GS?
>
> Brenda
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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1d.

Re: Do I wait for the next version of iPhone?

Posted by: "Bruce Carter" rbrucecarter@yahoo.com   rbrucecarter

Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:14 am (PDT)



> I've been hankering for an iphone for a long, long time... I was
> going to get the iPhone 4, but my daughter tells me not to touch it
> because of the problems people are experiencing. She specifically
> mentioned the back glass breaking and the loss of signal... Don't
> know what to do. She was worried as
> I have a tendency to drop my phone...
>
> Should I wait for the iPhone 4.5/5 or just buy the 3GS?

Get the iPhone and an Otter box. The Apple store sold them where I live. It solves breakage and signal problems.

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1e.

Re: Do I wait for the next version of iPhone?

Posted by: "Jean French" jfrench55@rcn.com   jefrench55

Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:16 am (PDT)



Our family has had 2 first gen, 1 3G, 2 3GS, and 2 iPhone 4's. You can say
that we are a bit addicted to the iPhone. I have used the 3G and the 4 and
I love the 4. I love the multitask feature and the Retina display. I read
a lot of ebooks on my phone so that is a nice feature. The one thing I
preferred on the 3G is the shape. The 4 is boxier and doesn't fit in my
hand as well.

My daughter on the other hand preferred her 3GS phone. No specific reason
given, just "I liked it better."

When it comes to breaking and scratching, my son, daughter, and husband have
all dropped and shattered their early gen phones so whatever you do, get a
case. In that same thought, the case will scratch the earlier phones but
I've used a case on my 4 since I bought it and no scratches.

When I had my 3G, I upgraded it to the iOS4 and it became a brick. I know
that Apple has worked on it since but I still think there may be problems.
I won't let my husband or son upgrade to the new OS because I don't want to
hear their complaints. If you do get a 3GS, check what OS it has.

I haven't had any significant problems with call quality or dropped calls
but I live in the Metropolitan Boston area so service it pretty good. Any
trouble that I have had has been an AT&T problem. I read on this list that
the iPhone may be available on Verizon soon so that could be something to
think on.

The best advice I can tell you is to find an Apple store and go play with
the phones. If there isn't a store nearby, find a friend and try theirs. I
thought my Razor phone was great until I played with my daughter's iPhone.
Then I was hooked.

Good luck

Jean

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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1f.

Re: Do I wait for the next version of iPhone?

Posted by: "Bruce Carter" rbrucecarter@yahoo.com   rbrucecarter

Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:28 am (PDT)



> I know others have great ATT coverage but its worse than Sprint if
> you ask me.

Coverage is all about where you live. CDMA (Verizon, Spring) is inherently flawed for technical reasons way to deep to get into here. I used to design cellular telephone base stations so I am qualified to make that statement. The longer you talk or stay on-line, the worse the quality will get. Eventually - your call WILL drop, it is inevitable. GSM (ATT and T-Mobile) is a much more robust protocol, and calls will hang in there no matter how long you talk or on line, provided you have good hand-offs if you are moving.

ATT coverage is great in Dallas, Houston, and LA. We've had Verizon, it basically sucked. My daughter is an actress, and when we are in LA the phone absolutely positively has to work. Call times are absolute - there is no late. And you get one call - there are no second chances - if you don't pick up they call the next person on the list. ATT is the best, at least in the downtown, Hollywood, valley / Burbank areas of LA.

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1g.

Re: Do I wait for the next version of iPhone?

Posted by: "K478" kryptonite478@yahoo.com   kryptonite478

Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:43 am (PDT)



Buy an Otterbox Defender case and solve both problems.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 22, 2010, at 9:13 AM, "Bruce Carter" <rbrucecarter@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > I've been hankering for an iphone for a long, long time... I was
> > going to get the iPhone 4, but my daughter tells me not to touch it
> > because of the problems people are experiencing. She specifically
> > mentioned the back glass breaking and the loss of signal... Don't
> > know what to do. She was worried as
> > I have a tendency to drop my phone...
> >
> > Should I wait for the iPhone 4.5/5 or just buy the 3GS?
>
> Get the iPhone and an Otter box. The Apple store sold them where I live. It solves breakage and signal problems.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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2a.

iphone breakage

Posted by: "Dawn" strawbarigurl@me.com   strawbarigurl

Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:08 am (PDT)




Hubby dropped iphone (gentle fall, face down onto thick carpet) and the face shattered. :( SOOOOOO sad. He feels REALLY bad. We have a genius appointment in the morning and are SOOOOO hoping they help us.

~Dawn
• sent from my iMac •

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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2b.

Re: iphone breakage

Posted by: "Bruce Carter" rbrucecarter@yahoo.com   rbrucecarter

Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:16 am (PDT)



> Hubby dropped iphone (gentle fall, face down onto thick carpet) and the face shattered. :( SOOOOOO sad. He feels REALLY bad. We have a genius appointment in the morning and are SOOOOO hoping they help us.

If they try to make you buy a new phone - don't! There are places in most major cities that will do an absolutely beautiful job of replacing the broken glass. Usually $70 to $80 - 15 minutes while you wait. Been there - I got a clumsy daughter.

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2c.

Re: iphone breakage

Posted by: "Shellie Turcanik" katydid2590@gmail.com   katydid2590

Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:19 am (PDT)



My husband did the same thing. He dropped it and the glass shattered. I have
Applecare on it and it is also covered under a Personal Articles policy with
State Farm. The genius bar told me that it is not covered for accidental
breakage under Applecare and to turn it in on the Personal Articles policy.
They charge 99.00 to replace the glass. I just got a check from State Farm
for 107.00 (they even included the tax) and am going to go have it replaced
at the Apple store. Long story short, make sure your Iphones are covered
under some kind of insurance policy other than Applecare. You won't be
sorry!

Good luck,

Shellie

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Dawn <strawbarigurl@me.com> wrote:

>
> Hubby dropped iphone (gentle fall, face down onto thick carpet) and the
> face shattered. :( SOOOOOO sad. He feels REALLY bad. We have a genius
> appointment in the morning and are SOOOOO hoping they help us.
>
> ~Dawn
> • sent from my iMac •
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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3a.

What's the best GPS w/VOICE on iPhone?

Posted by: "jiminmanjr" jiminmanjr@yahoo.com   jiminmanjr

Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:29 am (PDT)



I'm looking to replace my Tom-Tom GPS. I've been told to get the MotionX GPS Drive ($0.99 right now on the app store), but it only includes 30 days of live, turn-by-turn navigation with voice. Then it's a separate purchase.

Any recommendations on this one? Is there another GPS w/voice that I should consider?

Thanks, as always!

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3b.

Re: What's the best GPS w/VOICE on iPhone?

Posted by: "RobinM" mccuerob@yahoo.com   mccuerob

Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:54 am (PDT)



Are you replacing the tom-tom ap on your iphone? I recently got it, and love it - it does drain the battery a bit, but I just use my car charger with it.

--- In apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com, "jiminmanjr" <jiminmanjr@...> wrote:
>
> I'm looking to replace my Tom-Tom GPS. I've been told to get the MotionX GPS Drive ($0.99 right now on the app store), but it only includes 30 days of live, turn-by-turn navigation with voice. Then it's a separate purchase.
>
> Any recommendations on this one? Is there another GPS w/voice that I should consider?
>
> Thanks, as always!
>

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3c.

Re: What's the best GPS w/VOICE on iPhone?

Posted by: "Mark" hargrme@gmail.com   hargrme

Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:54 am (PDT)



I find MapQuest works great and it's free.

Mark

www.markhargrave.com | www.praydivinemercy.com †
Do not anticipate trouble or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the
Sonlight.

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:07 PM, jiminmanjr <jiminmanjr@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> I'm looking to replace my Tom-Tom GPS. I've been told to get the MotionX
> GPS Drive ($0.99 right now on the app store), but it only includes 30 days
> of live, turn-by-turn navigation with voice. Then it's a separate purchase.
>
> Any recommendations on this one? Is there another GPS w/voice that I should
> consider?
>
> Thanks, as always!
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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3d.

Re: What's the best GPS w/VOICE on iPhone?

Posted by: "Ken Bandy" kbandy@iatse30.org   kbandy

Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:46 am (PDT)



MotionX GPS Drive is very good. I've used it now for over a year, and the
maps are very up to date, and it has gotten better with every update. One
caveat, though, you have to be in 3G territory for the maps to update
properly on the road. If not, you need to pre-load the maps.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jiminmanjr
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:08 PM
> To: apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [apple-iphone] What's the best GPS w/VOICE on iPhone?
>
> I'm looking to replace my Tom-Tom GPS. I've been told to get
> the MotionX GPS Drive ($0.99 right now on the app store), but
> it only includes 30 days of live, turn-by-turn navigation
> with voice. Then it's a separate purchase.
>
> Any recommendations on this one? Is there another GPS
> w/voice that I should consider?
>
> Thanks, as always!
>

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3e.

Re: What's the best GPS w/VOICE on iPhone?

Posted by: "lilredcobra" lilredcobra@yahoo.com   lilredcobra

Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:56 am (PDT)



I bought Navion Mobile GPS when it was on sale for $29.99 and have really been impressed with it.  Just checked on the APP store and the price is back up to $59.99.  The turn by turn voice is very good.
Joel

--- On Fri, 10/22/10, jiminmanjr <jiminmanjr@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: jiminmanjr <jiminmanjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: [apple-iphone] What's the best GPS w/VOICE on iPhone?
To: apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 11:07 AM

 

I'm looking to replace my Tom-Tom GPS. I've been told to get the MotionX GPS Drive ($0.99 right now on the app store), but it only includes 30 days of live, turn-by-turn navigation with voice. Then it's a separate purchase.

Any recommendations on this one? Is there another GPS w/voice that I should consider?

Thanks, as always!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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3f.

Re: What's the best GPS w/VOICE on iPhone?

Posted by: "Prokic Roger" rprokic@me.com   rprokic

Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:31 pm (PDT)



TomTom has live traffic that works great. My other choice is MotionX!

---
Roger Prokic

-=[ this message was sent from my Apple iPhone 4 ]=-

On Oct 22, 2010, at 1:07 PM, jiminmanjr <jiminmanjr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'm looking to replace my Tom-Tom GPS. I've been told to get the MotionX GPS Drive ($0.99 right now on the app store), but it only includes 30 days of live, turn-by-turn navigation with voice. Then it's a separate purchase.
>
> Any recommendations on this one? Is there another GPS w/voice that I should consider?
>
> Thanks, as always!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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3g.

Re: What's the best GPS w/VOICE on iPhone?

Posted by: "Jim Inman" jiminmanjr@yahoo.com   jiminmanjr

Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:31 pm (PDT)



My mom and I will split the use of a Tom-Tom (she doesn't use a smart phone).  I may do some long-distance travel, and regularly be out of 3G service.  But, for trips to local spots (within two hours), my phone would be what I would use.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions and information so far!

--- On Fri, 10/22/10, RobinM <mccuerob@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: RobinM <mccuerob@yahoo.com>
Subject: [apple-iphone] Re: What's the best GPS w/VOICE on iPhone?
To: apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 1:50 PM

 

Are you replacing the tom-tom ap on your iphone? I recently got it, and love it - it does drain the battery a bit, but I just use my car charger with it.

--- In apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com, "jiminmanjr" <jiminmanjr@...> wrote:
>
> I'm looking to replace my Tom-Tom GPS. I've been told to get the MotionX GPS Drive ($0.99 right now on the app store), but it only includes 30 days of live, turn-by-turn navigation with voice. Then it's a separate purchase.
>
> Any recommendations on this one? Is there another GPS w/voice that I should consider?
>
> Thanks, as always!
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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3h.

Re: What's the best GPS w/VOICE on iPhone?

Posted by: "Jim Saklad" jimdoc@me.com   jimdoc01

Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:34 pm (PDT)



> I'm looking to replace my Tom-Tom GPS. I've been told to get the MotionX GPS Drive ($0.99 right now on the app store), but it only includes 30 days of live, turn-by-turn navigation with voice. Then it's a separate purchase.
>
> Any recommendations on this one? Is there another GPS w/voice that I should consider?

I own MotionX GPS, MotionX GPS Drive, and TomTom Apps.

The first two download maps as needed over cellular or Wifi connections, which means that on my recent trip, they were not very helpful through most of Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri. Other than that, and ongoing payment for voice directions, they are very good.

They do have the option of simulating your trip, and downloading the relevant maps ahead of time and caching them.

What I actually *USE* most of the time is TomTom USA/Canada, which is a $60 App ($50 for just USA), and which occupies about 1.5 GB on your iPhone, but that's because it includes the maps and POI's within it. Voice directions are included; live traffic is available as an in-App purchase.

Since getting this, and the TomTom Car Kit, my Garmin Nuvi 760 has lived in my wife's car.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@me.com

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4a.

Is there an app for that?

Posted by: "AnneL" shadow484@comcast.net   alogston

Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:31 pm (PDT)



I have a friend with whom I generally spend a lot of time emailing back and
forth on the computer. However, her computer is in the shop and she's
driving me crazy with texts -- I HATE texting on my phone. I like typing at
my nice big Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. (Parenthetically, her phone isn't
an iPhone and isn't on AT&T, so I'm not sure this question is completely
OT -- forgive me if it's not!)

Is there any way that she can text on her phone, and I can send and receive
at my computer?

Thanks,
Anne


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4b.

Re: Is there an app for that?

Posted by: "bj" bjones44@verizon.net   jblair44

Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:54 pm (PDT)




Yes, there's an app for that.

Google <texting on computer to phone> you'll get plenty of hits.
Maybe some of them will help you.

Can't she use email on her phone?
bj

Oct 22, 2010 03:31:14 PM, apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com wrote:

===========================================

I have a friend with whom I generally spend a lot of time emailing back and
forth on the computer. However, her computer is in the shop and she's
driving me crazy with texts -- I HATE texting on my phone. I like typing at
my nice big Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. (Parenthetically, her phone isn't
an iPhone and isn't on AT&T, so I'm not sure this question is completely
OT -- forgive me if it's not!)

Is there any way that she can text on her phone, and I can send and receive
at my computer?

Thanks,
Anne


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4c.

Re: Is there an app for that?

Posted by: "Woody" waterk9@gmail.com   rainiedaze139

Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:06 pm (PDT)



Another option. ?
I don't text either, but have one friend that uses his phone for
everything, text and email, he travels lots. We are not on the same
network or plan so calls are not free and we are not big talkers.
I have a Google Voice number and give that out to everyone. In Google
Voice can set it up to call/ring various land, VOIP, or mobile numbers.
But... with it come the ability to send and receive text msgs Free from
a computer. GV sends the text to my email account and to my mobile phone
if setup that way. I reply using the texting part of GV on my laptop.
As bj mentioned we also email but that may depend on if he is using his
phone or laptop. He can receive my emails and send on the phone if he
wants but maybe harder.

> Yes, there's an app for that.
>
> Google<texting on computer to phone> you'll get plenty of hits.
> Maybe some of them will help you.
>
> Can't she use email on her phone?
> bj
>
>
> ===========================================
>
> I have a friend with whom I generally spend a lot of time emailing back and
> forth on the computer. However, her computer is in the shop and she's
> driving me crazy with texts -- I HATE texting on my phone. I like typing at
> my nice big Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. (Parenthetically, her phone isn't
> an iPhone and isn't on AT&T, so I'm not sure this question is completely
> OT -- forgive me if it's not!)
>
> Is there any way that she can text on her phone, and I can send and receive
> at my computer?
>
> Thanks,
> Anne
>

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4d.

Re: Is there an app for that?

Posted by: "Tara Payne" hijump1@yahoo.com   tmayner

Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:33 pm (PDT)



The texter can text to an email address then you can reply from your computer. My parents and I do this sometimes.

From: apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com [mailto:apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Woody
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 4:01 PM
To: apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [apple-iphone] Is there an app for that?

Another option. ?
I don't text either, but have one friend that uses his phone for
everything, text and email, he travels lots. We are not on the same
network or plan so calls are not free and we are not big talkers.
I have a Google Voice number and give that out to everyone. In Google
Voice can set it up to call/ring various land, VOIP, or mobile numbers.
But... with it come the ability to send and receive text msgs Free from
a computer. GV sends the text to my email account and to my mobile phone
if setup that way. I reply using the texting part of GV on my laptop.
As bj mentioned we also email but that may depend on if he is using his
phone or laptop. He can receive my emails and send on the phone if he
wants but maybe harder.

> Yes, there's an app for that.
>
> Google<texting on computer to phone> you'll get plenty of hits.
> Maybe some of them will help you.
>
> Can't she use email on her phone?
> bj
>
>
> ===========================================
>
> I have a friend with whom I generally spend a lot of time emailing back and
> forth on the computer. However, her computer is in the shop and she's
> driving me crazy with texts -- I HATE texting on my phone. I like typing at
> my nice big Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. (Parenthetically, her phone isn't
> an iPhone and isn't on AT&T, so I'm not sure this question is completely
> OT -- forgive me if it's not!)
>
> Is there any way that she can text on her phone, and I can send and receive
> at my computer?
>
> Thanks,
> Anne
>

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4e.

Re: Is there an app for that?

Posted by: "Richard Raiff" richraiff@gmail.com   raiffrj

Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:53 pm (PDT)



You can send and receive text through your AT&T online account on your
computer.

On Friday, October 22, 2010, Tara Payne <hijump1@yahoo.com> wrote:
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>
>
> The texter can text to an email address then you can reply from your computer. My parents and I do this sometimes.
>
> From: apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com <apple-iphone%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Woody
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 4:01 PM
> To: apple-iphone@yahoogroups.com <apple-iphone%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [apple-iphone] Is there an app for that?
>
> Another option. ?
> I don't text either, but have one friend that uses his phone for
> everything, text and email, he travels lots. We are not on the same
> network or plan so calls are not free and we are not big talkers.
> I have a Google Voice number and give that out to everyone. In Google
> Voice can set it up to call/ring various land, VOIP, or mobile numbers.
> But... with it come the ability to send and receive text msgs Free from
> a computer. GV sends the text to my email account and to my mobile phone
> if setup that way. I reply using the texting part of GV on my laptop.
> As bj mentioned we also email but that may depend on if he is using his
> phone or laptop. He can receive my emails and send on the phone if he
> wants but maybe harder.
>
>> Yes, there's an app for that.
>>
>> Google<texting on computer to phone> you'll get plenty of hits.
>> Maybe some of them will help you.
>>
>> Can't she use email on her phone?
>> bj
>>
>>
>> ===========================================
>>
>> I have a friend with whom I generally spend a lot of time emailing back and
>> forth on the computer. However, her computer is in the shop and she's
>> driving me crazy with texts -- I HATE texting on my phone. I like typing at
>> my nice big Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. (Parenthetically, her phone isn't
>> an iPhone and isn't on AT&T, so I'm not sure this question is completely
>> OT -- forgive me if it's not!)
>>
>> Is there any way that she can text on her phone, and I can send and receive
>> at my computer?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Anne
>>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> _____
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1144 / Virus Database: 422/3212 - Release Date: 10/22/10
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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--
Rich Raiff

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